A New Chapter

A place for you writers to complain about your writing and the writing process... maybe posting what you got done today to make you feel like less of a writing failure.

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Postby funkywriter3 » Sun Sep 10, 2006 1:20 am

CZ75 wrote:
funkywriter3 wrote:Yeah I guess it does. Right after I posted this I had an interesting encounter. My dad's friend from the south is visiting and we're all joking about lifestyles in the United States when he says he's writing a novel. He then tells me practically the same thing as you pengwenn, which is don't stop whatever you do. Also he says that at some point everyone should write a novel because everyone has a life that can make a story.


A few questions:
1. Where have you been?
2. The novel with which you now struggle -- is it the same onte this thread addressed earlier? The one with 200 stories spanning history?
3. I would be quite happy to read any part of it, if you want to send it to me.


1. At school mostly.
2. Yes, it is the same story.
3. Sweet! Yeah I may post the first chapter here in my blog in a little while.
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Postby CZ75 » Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:38 am

Okay, first of all, you might want to access a thread I had going on earlier with, I believe, bfsooner. We covered the same ground. My advice to her was VERY unpopular, but I will repeat it for you anyway, in abridged fashion.

Earlier, you wondered aloud if you were taking on too much -- I believe you are. Writing a book is the hardest thing I've ever done in my life (I have started 6, finished 3, and am about to finish the 4th) and in my opinion, if you are writing a novel, you had best keep the other drains on your free time TO AN ABSOLUTE MINIMUM! That means all that school stuff and even all the extra writing -- poems, short stories, essays, plays, journaling, etc.

It seems to me that this is especially true in your case for 2 very good reasons --
1. You are very young, and thus, less experienced. I could be wrong about this but at age 25 or 35, it seems to me that one would have a good deal more practice and experience at juggling life plus work and being able to fit more in than one at age 15.

2. The book you are attempting (while being VERY worthwhile, I'm sure) is also VERY VERY difficult. This is not a romance we are speaking of here, it is not boy meets girl, or spy thriller, or cops 'n' robbers. This is a book, I have no shame in admitting, that I would never even attempt. I don't know how the others feel around here, but this is no kiddie project in my eyes. Because of that you must REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY FOCUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyway, that's my take. Let me know what you think.
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Postby funkywriter3 » Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:12 pm

CZ75 wrote: 1. You are very young, and thus, less experienced. I could be wrong about this but at age 25 or 35, it seems to me that one would have a good deal more practice and experience at juggling life plus work and being able to fit more in than one at age 15. 2. The book you are attempting (while being VERY worthwhile, I'm sure) is also VERY VERY difficult. This is not a romance we are speaking of here, it is not boy meets girl, or spy thriller, or cops 'n' robbers. This is a book, I have no shame in admitting, that I would never even attempt. I don't know how the others feel around here, but this is no kiddie project in my eyes. Because of that you must REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY FOCUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Anyway, that's my take. Let me know what you think.


CZ75 I am not about to tell you off, but I do have a response. This novel is something I feel I have an obligation to write. Now while I view this as an obligation it is something I am more than willing to spend my time on. How is this an obligation you ask? My religion is something very important to me and I guess you could say I've had a religious intervention with this book. The God that I believe in I believe is behind all of my writing, but in particular this book for the nature of the topic. Once again I don't know your take on religion, so I can't assume people will get why I am writing this story.
Yes, I realize this is a heavy load and that is why I joke saying that's why I'm starting now.
I do not believe I am inexperienced. I think writers, whatever the age, have it in them to produce something worthwhile. I think some people have talent and I am one of those rare exceptions where I am far more mature than my peers. I relate better with older people and I've always been that way.
I fully am aware this novel could take the rest of my life to finish or maybe never complete it. Either way I can honestly say now that I CAN and WILL write this novel because I am a dedicated person and while I have pushed aside some novels in the past I cannot do that with this one.
Am I making any sense?

Funky
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Postby Hyker » Tue Sep 12, 2006 3:41 am

GOOOOOOOOOOO Funky! :-D

You tell him! I don't agree with CZ, because I believe that it is the day to day events, along with ANY other writing, that keeps your muse alive and kicking. You don't have to stop everything else you are doing to concentrate on a novel. You are concentrating on it almost every waking (and even sleeping) moment as it is. Allowing a release in other areas will only help your writing process. I actually get more ideas from writing my (mini-stories) blogs on my website.

As far as Age=Experience=A novel, that is only ignorance. There are far too many other examples of successful young writers out there that will refute CZ's statements. Most editors don't even look at the age of the author until the first meeting. The key is that you are passionate about what you write, and you have an interesting story to tell. It sounds like you have both! :-D
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Postby charlesp » Tue Sep 12, 2006 7:04 am

Guys, I think you missed the (2) from CZ breaking up the points (I'll format his post a little for clarity). I don't think he was saying she was too young to write the novel. I think he was stating that as you get older you're going to be better at juggling all of the various responsibilities and such. The age was mentioned as a factor to organizing your time/focusing on a big task. Not that she didn't have the experience to do the writing but that because she's younger she may need to focus more on the one big project.

Granted, I think Funky's young enough right now that the extranous things, while they may distract from writing the novel, are good ways of "filling the well" so she'll have more to draw from for the rest of her writing life. While you gain experiences throughout your life, I think those formative years are especially important to "live" so you've got those things in your memory to pull from later on (rarely are the memories and emotions of sitting in your room typing away the ones that resonate... more often it's the friendship/romance/personal interaction emotions that make for good characters).

Of course the other thing being that Funky's in highschool and they don't let you ditch that too focus on your writing usually... so to some degree any "focus on writing" will be limited by all that pesky truancy law.

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Postby CZ75 » Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:27 am

Who you calling ignorant??!! Age is a factor in novel writing. In case you've not noticed, more novels are written by 35 year olds than 15 year olds.
Last edited by CZ75 on Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby CZ75 » Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:29 am

Hyker wrote:GOOOOOOOOOOO Funky! :-D

"You tell him! I don't agree with CZ, because I believe that it is the day to day events, along with ANY other writing, that keeps your muse alive and kicking."


Oh sure, in an entire year she's completed what??? One chapter or was it five. And she wants to do 200 separate stories? Book will be finished in the year 3974. I like the advice you give -- "Hey, you're embarking on something extremely difficult, but completing the task requires no sacrifice whatsoever. Simply live your life every day the way you did before takign on the task, make no changes whatsoever and all will be well."
Last edited by CZ75 on Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby CZ75 » Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:35 am

charlesp wrote:Guys, I think you missed the (2) from CZ breaking up the points (I'll format his post a little for clarity). I don't think he was saying she was too young to write the novel. I think he was stating that as you get older you're going to be better at juggling all of the various responsibilities and such. The age was mentioned as a factor to organizing your time/focusing on a big task. Not that she didn't have the experience to do the writing but that because she's younger she may need to focus more on the one big project.


Precisely. I thought the point was clear, but for slow readers I guess I should have been more careful. FW is undertaking a massively difficult project, when undertaking such a project, other things might have to be sacrificed. Completion will involve discipline and sacrifice. Mommys used to teach this stuff. I never said she could not write the book or that she should not write the book, I merely said she might have to sacrifice to do it. I forgot we were living in fairyland and all good things come to those who wish them without discipline, sacrifice, or effort. And imagine getting all upset because I say that one's abilities at 35 are more advanced than at age 15? When I was 15 I knew damn well that 35 years olds could do more than I, or that if I was going to undertake a project, a 35 year old could probably do it faster than I. Again, however, in fairyland, this is just not the case.
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Postby CZ75 » Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:43 am

funkywriter wrote:Either way I can honestly say now that I CAN and WILL write this novel because I am a dedicated person and while I have pushed aside some novels in the past I cannot do that with this one.


Good. Did you read my post to you? Because THAT IS WHAT I WAS TELLING YOU. DO NOT push this aside. OTHER THINGS might have to be pushed aside, but not this.
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Postby CZ75 » Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:48 am

Hyker wrote:As far as Age=Experience=A novel, that is only ignorance. There are far too many other examples of successful young writers out there that will refute CZ's statements. :-D


Let's try to move slowly. Did CZ say that no young person had ever written a novel? I don't think so, but maybe my computer's acting up. Did CZ say that a 15 year old's multi-tasking, juggling skills might not be the equal of a 35 year old's? I think so, but again, that might be the pesky computer. 15 year olds and 35 years olds have different abilities. Some (chiefly 5 years olds) probably find this to be shocking in the extreme and are now rushing to the fainting couches, but what can I say?
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Postby xcheck24 » Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:04 am

Hey, guys, how about a time out. Lets all step back and cool down here.

I think everyone wants the best for funky here, but everyone also has to remember this is HER project and SHE will choose how it is best to do it. She is in high school, remember, and because of such she has other things to do besides the novel. She has schoolwork, for example. And funky full well knows how to do all the juggling. We've seen her do it in the past. And it's obvious of her dedication to it. So lets not jump ugly on each other about what she should be doing. She knows what she has to do, and we should encourage her more than lecture her into doing things in one way and one way only.
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Postby CZ75 » Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:11 am

xcheck24 wrote:Hey, guys, how about a time out. Lets all step back and cool down here.

I think everyone wants the best for funky here, but everyone also has to remember this is HER project and SHE will choose how it is best to do it. She is in high school, remember, and because of such she has other things to do besides the novel. She has schoolwork, for example. And funky full well knows how to do all the juggling. We've seen her do it in the past. And it's obvious of her dedication to it. So lets not jump ugly on each other about what she should be doing. She knows what she has to do, and we should encourage her more than lecture her into doing things in one way and one way only.


No, no. Everybody except me needs a time out. Funky ASKED for advice. Go back and look. I believe her exact words were "Am I taking on too much?" I gave advice, in a kindhearted and polite manner, praising her for taking on such a difficult and complex novel. EVERYBODY seems to want to PRETEND that what I said (or maybe their reading skills aren't up to snuff) was "Funky, you insignificant little teenager. What makes you think that you can even attempt to write a novel, something that only a fully grown MAN like MYSELF can do? Go and play with your blocks, you little child." AGAIN, this is what people PRETENDED that I said. I said nothing of the kind, nor did I even suggest that she COULD not or SHOULD not finish the book, I merely suggested that it might take sacrifice. SCANDAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SHOCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HORRORS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Postby xcheck24 » Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:15 am

CZ, you also need to cool down. Look at how many responses you posted to three posts? Five posts. Chill, man. Please. That goes for everyone.
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Postby CZ75 » Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:18 am

xcheck24 wrote:CZ, you also need to cool down. Look at how many responses you posted to three posts? Five posts. Chill, man. Please. That goes for everyone.


I suspect you, too, would be upset if your words had been twisted and tortured by people wanting to attack you and call you "ignorant".
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Postby xcheck24 » Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:32 am

Why do you think I'm telling everyone, including you, to cool down?
So please, cool down.
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Postby CZ75 » Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:35 am

xcheck24 wrote:Why do you think I'm telling everyone, including you, to cool down?
So please, cool down.


I have now cooled down. Why, I'm virtually a cucumber at this point. :)
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Postby Hyker » Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:12 pm

Wow, who could've imagined a single post would warrant so many exclamation marks? :shock: :)

While I enjoy debate and differing ideals, I didn't mean to spark a tidal wave of emotional posts and sarcasm. It amazes me that a single word in the english language has been able to morph into a profanity. I used the word for lack of a better one, because I've been reading several articles that revolve around the question of age considerations for writers. There seems to be a good amount of skepticism about whether a younger writer has the experience necessary to really develop a character or plot. All of the responses to the question were answered in the same manner as I responded. There should be no age considerations when writing or reading a novel; the novel should stand alone based on a well written story.

As far as Age=Experience=A novel, that is only ignorance.
I didn't say that CZ is ignorant....I wrote that the belief that age is a determining factor on whether a novel can be written, or published, is a concept hinged on ignorance of the publishing industry, and is not supported by fact. It seems to be a belief that is widespread and not just held by one person.There are other young authors who have proven that good storytelling is not always bracketed into age groups. Funky should take heart and solice in that.

I still believe that writing is something that comes from the soul, and if Funky feels the passion to embark on a novel, then I wholeheartedly support that, and believe it can be done. To say otherwise, or bring up obstacles that only she can really know in her own life, is inserting our reality into hers. All that negativity can't be good for anyone's self-esteem, even if it's well intentioned negativity offered as good advice.

As writers, we live and work in a world where negativity and obstacles abound. Rejection slips, editorial censorship, competition...and the list goes on. But there is a light at the end of the tunnel. We all see it, or we wouldn't keep reaching for that brass ring.

I stand by my opinion...Goooooo Funky! :-D
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Postby funkywriter3 » Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:29 pm

Hello! I am renaming my blog to Yikes! CZ I fully understand what you're saying and where you're coming from. I do not believe you to be ignorant to any extent. I, as Funky, did not intend for everyone to get so excited about my blog. I do realize it's hard to balance time just ask my mom on how I am doing with time management. My novel was started officially a year ago and yes I have done an amazing 4 complete chapters, three of which are poems. Along with this has come many revisions.
So please everyone calm down. I am not here to stir up arguments or put someone against another. I am just looking for feedback, which I have definitely received.

Oh and I am 16 now. :-#
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Postby CZ75 » Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:30 pm

Hyker wrote:
I still believe that writing is something that comes from the soul, and if Funky feels the passion to embark on a novel, then I wholeheartedly support that, and believe it can be done. To say otherwise, or bring up obstacles that only she can really know in her own life, is inserting our reality into hers. All that negativity can't be good for anyone's self-esteem, even if it's well intentioned negativity offered as good advice.


A very flowery, eloquent response, yet meaningless. Again, your response is based on some bizarre, God-knows-where-you-got-it notion that I said "Funky, you can't write this book." Also, FUNKY ASKED FOR ADVICE. I gave it. I was not "inserting" anything into her reality. Now, it is entirely true that my advice may not work for her; this is why it is called "advice" and not "Commandments from the Almighty."
"All that negativity can't be good for anyone's self-esteem?" HOLY JUMPING JIMMINY!!!!!! Telling somebody that they might have to FOCUS on a hard project is going to tear them down? Just how unimaginably delicate do you think FW is? And if she can't handle some advice to focus (after she asked for it) then she is in BIG BIG BIG BIG trouble in life.

Let me close with some more advice about focusing on a big project, and therefore dedicating less time to other projects. This time the advice comes from, well, YOU. From your writing blog.

"Honestly, I don't want the website to become too work intensive to the point it takes away from my writing."

Good advice.
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Postby funkywriter3 » Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:34 pm

Welcome folks you are on the passion vs. reality writer's show.
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Postby xcheck24 » Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:40 pm

I thought I told EVERYONE to cool it?

Sorry about the mess funky *sigh*
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Postby bfsooner » Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:01 pm

Ok, everyone sit cross-legged, breath in through your nose, and out through your mouth. Close your eyes and imagine you are in your safe place.

Funky, I would love to read anything that you post on here.

Also...put hands above head waiting for the backlash...I think advising to focus on a project is stating an obvious. I believe we all know that novels don't write themselves.
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Postby TheMudge » Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:04 pm

OK, first off, EVERYbody needs to calm down, or so help me, I will turn this blog around RIGHT NOW and take you home!

Now. CZ, it seems that what you were saying in that original entry was

a.) Time management and multi-tasking is a talent that grows with experience; hence, someone older (with more experience) is more likely to be better at it (and thereby at least IMPLYING that it might be easier/better for Funky to wait to write this particular book;

and

b.) To write the book she has proposed--and to do it WELL--is going to be TOUGH (thereby implying that yeah, maybe she IS taking on too much--your OPINION, of course, but she asked for that and you SAID it was your opinion).

Do I have that right?

If so, then, I have a couple of observations: one, the post that started all this DID say that--BUT I had to read it a couple of times to discern that . . . and the whole thing DID have an air of condescension to it, intended or not. So shame on you for unclear writing, maybe.

BUT

All the rest of y'all need to chill out and quit just reacting here. Funky, I love ya, sweetie, but I don't think anyone here is trying to flame you: you DID ask for opinions, and CZ's opinion was that yeah, maybe it was too much. You can choose to IGNORE that opinion . . . or you can choose to explain your side, which you did.

Seems to me that Hyker picked up on the undertones of CZ's reply, and everyone started responding to responses. If I'm wrong, and you really all DO hate each other, well, do it on another site.
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Postby TheMudge » Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:06 pm

bfsooner wrote:.I think advising to focus on a project is stating an obvious.


I think the point is that this PARTICULAR project would require EXTRA focus . . . and anyway, since when is reminding someone of the obvious considered bad advice?
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Postby bfsooner » Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:24 pm

Isn't it great that I wasn't giving advice?
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