No bannining, no copyrights, no books...

A place for writer's to congregate and commiserate about the life of the writer. Discuss techniques for fixing your prose, livening up your dialogue, or awakening your muse. Also share in writing victories, be they publication or contest winnings.

Moderator: Metaphor Makers

User avatar
timberline
Wordtrip Junkie
Posts: 1468
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 9:54 am
Location: Back home in south Jersey
Contact:

Postby timberline » Wed May 17, 2006 8:21 am

Let me go out on a limb and predict (ta-dah!!) that in one generation....
> there will bo no banned books because they'll ALL be copied, tagged and linked in a global electronic library.
> there will be no copyrights because they now serve only to protect businesses (Most authors fear obscurity more than they worry about sales.)
> there will probably be no books, except those moldering in the Library of Congress and my basement next to my collection of 78s and 45s.
 Cruising the Green of Second Avenue is available at Barnes & Noble and other online book sellers. More good stuff at http://allotropiclucubrations.blogspot.com
User avatar
charlesp
Site Admin
Posts: 13851
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2003 8:56 pm
Location: Lawrenceville, GA
Contact:

Postby charlesp » Wed May 17, 2006 8:50 am

timberline wrote:Let me go out on a limb and predict (ta-dah!!) that in one generation....
> there will bo no banned books because they'll ALL be copied, tagged and linked in a global electronic library.
> there will be no copyrights because they now serve only to protect businesses (Most authors fear obscurity more than they worry about sales.)
> there will probably be no books, except those moldering in the Library of Congress and my basement next to my collection of 78s and 45s.


:)) Isn't it a bit early in the morning to start drinking timber?

point two is the most amusing... like the individual authors have the lobbying power to push laws the way the corporations do... and the electronic library thing is a dandy idea, but pretty unlikely to happen anytime soon (google is trying to no avail to get something close to that done and having people fight them tooth and toenail). And EVEN if both of the first two happen, there will at least be books in MY basement too.... along with my LPs and 45s (not quite old enough to have any 78s).

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C Clarke
"Coffee is sufficiently advanced technology" - Merlin Mann
One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee." - Wally (Dilbert)
User avatar
timberline
Wordtrip Junkie
Posts: 1468
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 9:54 am
Location: Back home in south Jersey
Contact:

Postby timberline » Wed May 17, 2006 5:27 pm

Noooo, in a cover story in the Sunday NY Times magazine (avail. online, 5/14/06, "Scan This Book!"), Kevin Kelly of Wired magazine avers 75% of all the books in the world's libraries are orphaned, and no one knows who--if anyone--has a copyright on them; 15% of the books are in the public domain; and 10% are still in print. (See http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/14/magaz ... ref=slogin)

Google is going ahead to scan all books and post snippets under the fair use doctrine. If there is an objection to the posting from a valid copyright holder the posting will be removed.

Re. my first point (before I had a drink), banning and censoring in places like the PRC is taking place largely with the connivance of Google and Yahoo! This means you will always be able to laff out loud with Terry Southern in Blue Movie.

But, did you notice today's headlines that the king of Saudi Arabia is strongly suggesting Saudi newspapers run no photos of women because men are so easily led astray. Ah, the beauty that lies in a woman's eyes...and lies and lies and lies.
 Cruising the Green of Second Avenue is available at Barnes & Noble and other online book sellers. More good stuff at http://allotropiclucubrations.blogspot.com
User avatar
pengwenn
Wordtrip Fixture
Posts: 5534
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:01 pm
Location: a nice padded cubicle
Contact:

Postby pengwenn » Wed May 17, 2006 5:34 pm

Look into my eyes timber. :shock: You are getting very sleepy. :zzz: You will give all your money to me. :pirate: You will do everything I say. :yessir: But you will not know why. :dunno:
Is this my reality or yours?
User avatar
charlesp
Site Admin
Posts: 13851
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2003 8:56 pm
Location: Lawrenceville, GA
Contact:

Postby charlesp » Wed May 17, 2006 6:00 pm

timberline wrote:Noooo, in a cover story in the Sunday NY Times magazine (avail. online, 5/14/06, "Scan This Book!"), Kevin Kelly of Wired magazine avers 75% of all the books in the world's libraries are orphaned, and no one knows who--if anyone--has a copyright on them; 15% of the books are in the public domain; and 10% are still in print. (See http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/14/magaz ... ref=slogin)

Google is going ahead to scan all books and post snippets under the fair use doctrine. If there is an objection to the posting from a valid copyright holder the posting will be removed.


Well, as a former subscriber to Wired, while I love the magazine they tend to play a bit fast and loose with the facts when it comes to predicting the future (not that they lie, but that, and I know you're shocked that ANYBODY would do this, they tend to use the figures and data that helps them make a point... usually an outlandishly optomistic or pessimistic one). The problem lies in the Disney copyright realm... there are a lot of books/movies/etc from the 20-60s that fall in that "we're not sure if we renewed the copyright" realm, but more and more the publishing houses are very strong on the copyright use (and thanks to Disney, as I understand it, things that should have been in public domain decades ago are now not, so the companies can make money off them for ever and ever amen).

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/commentary ... igman.html covers the Sonny Bono (Disney) copyright law and while the prediction that copyright may become obsolete in the future MAY come to pass... I think it would be a much longer way off than just a generation.

As to google print (a dandy idea I think), they've continued to move forward, but with much less gusto and with many pending lawsuits about it... so it remains to be seen how well it will work out.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C Clarke
"Coffee is sufficiently advanced technology" - Merlin Mann
One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee." - Wally (Dilbert)
User avatar
JillStar
Moderator+
Posts: 12824
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 8:36 pm
Location: The land of Pensive Reflection

Postby JillStar » Wed May 17, 2006 6:12 pm

Ironically... just today at lunch with my boyfriend, we were discussing books and their apparent demise. I am in denial and refuse to believe that books will disappear.

What brought this up? Well... I want to own and operate my own business and one idea is a book store (with a few surprises). What has to be done? A HUGE NICHE!!

In order to run a successful bookstore, I strongly believe a niche must be found and filled. My thought... and outdoor bookstore... although, not literally. :)

My worry... internet purchasing of actual books and the possiblity to read on-line books whenever and wherever a person wants may be the one thing that fizzled my dreams. If everyone stays away... I can't be successful.
Fast Fiction Friday Blog 2011-2018: Additional FFF Prompts
User avatar
Mlou
Wordtrip Fixture
Posts: 16614
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 10:24 pm
Location: Vermont

Postby Mlou » Wed May 17, 2006 6:38 pm

I understand that the bookstore/coffee shops do pretty well, Jill.

As for old 78's and 45's...I have you all beat. I have my great grandfathers old one sided records that each weigh a ton, made for the old Victrolas, with songs by the old great opera stars and novelty records like "In The Black Forest", which is about a thousand cuckoo clocks all chirping the hour at once, and another of a guy whistling.
Any buyers out there??
nothing is ever simply Yes or No. There's always a But...


GINGERBREAD MAN by Mary Lou Healy at Amazon.com http://www.publishamerica.com/shopping/ ... ogid=16658 at Publish America
User avatar
b-ballgirl
Wordtrip Junkie
Posts: 806
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 5:22 pm

Postby b-ballgirl » Wed May 17, 2006 9:15 pm

timberline wrote:Let me go out on a limb and predict (ta-dah!!) that in one generation....
> there will bo no banned books because they'll ALL be copied, tagged and linked in a global electronic library.
> there will be no copyrights because they now serve only to protect businesses (Most authors fear obscurity more than they worry about sales.)
> there will probably be no books, except those moldering in the Library of Congress and my basement next to my collection of 78s and 45s.


Scary....kind of reminds me of Fahrenheit 451
Dream as if you'll live forever, but live as if you'll die tomorrow.

Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss it you will land among the stars.
novicescribbler
Wordtripper
Posts: 51
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:31 pm

Postby novicescribbler » Mon May 29, 2006 12:51 am

But, did you notice today's headlines that the king of Saudi Arabia is strongly suggesting Saudi newspapers run no photos of women because men are so easily led astray. Ah, the beauty that lies in a woman's eyes...and lies and lies and lies.
_________________
Timberline:
Just food for thought but are we throwing the babyout with the bathwater (cliche' - slap my hand) when it comes to magazine censorship. In my local corner store they sell Maxim at toddler eye level. Is it closed minded to say that some material should be more discreetly handled or am I treading on a writing sacred cow (another cliche' - lose five demerits). Where is the balance?

About the bookstore Jillstar - I would buy, but it might be more of a niche than we think. Next generation attention span, illiteracy level, instant media entertainment ...
Aren't I a harbinger of doom? I just thought of a new posting ...
User avatar
timberline
Wordtrip Junkie
Posts: 1468
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 9:54 am
Location: Back home in south Jersey
Contact:

Postby timberline » Mon May 29, 2006 9:12 am

Novice, there are people who don't let their children watch television or drink Coke--and they're not Bible thumpers. Use a little discretion in what you expose children to, explain rationally why some things are not good for them, and then let them grow up and make their own mistakes.

This week, a local (Connecticut) parent insisted a children's book on World War II be banned because it used the J word. Same people, I guess, who would ban Tom Sawyer because Jim was not referred to as an "African-American." As a teenager in the '50s, I don't think I was traumatized by J.D. Salinger. My suggestion: let's err on the side of NOT censoring.
 Cruising the Green of Second Avenue is available at Barnes & Noble and other online book sellers. More good stuff at http://allotropiclucubrations.blogspot.com
novicescribbler
Wordtripper
Posts: 51
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:31 pm

Postby novicescribbler » Mon May 29, 2006 9:43 pm

Hi Timberline,
An interesting note on Twain. I read his biography a while back and found out that his purpose in writing the way he did was to record the south realistically (as he saw it) and to open the eyes of people to the situation. For instance there was something about a free black man crossing a river into a southern state and legally being returned to slavery on the testimony of one white man. Huck Finn, I think. I'm so good on details. Anyway, what we consider racist today was used to educate in his time. According to the standards that we apply today, Uncle Tom's Cabin would be seen as racist. The times have a lot to do with our perception.
What I meant about Maxim is that there is a lot of public material that little kids have to look at whether they want to or not. Chucky posters in the video store window with a picture of a childs severed and rotting foot on it, or adult magazines displayed at eye level. We can't raise them in a bubble, and as a society we seem to have no interest in giving them a chance to make a choice. It seems to me that we have a responsibility to give kids the room to decide. As a society are we not capable of weighing our options? Does it have to be all or nothing?
I read Salinger in school as well, and enjoyed it, but I wouldn't read it to my grandaughter. Maybe that makes me old fashioned.
Another thing that was cool about Twain. He said that any writer who said he wasn't interested in the money was a dolt.
User avatar
timberline
Wordtrip Junkie
Posts: 1468
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 9:54 am
Location: Back home in south Jersey
Contact:

Postby timberline » Tue Jun 06, 2006 10:22 am

Chucky posters at Blockbuster is another reason to avoid crap movies to begin with. Read books instead.

It has to be "all or nothing." Are you going to be the one to arbitrate...or is there a committee...or do we decide on a plurality? Remember the Volstead Act and the Comstock Act!

No one expects to find sex exposes in My Weekly Reader, but you have the voting power of your dollar. Think back: the 19th century saw a significant part of the population stoned on opiate pharmaceuticals, people died of preventible diseases, and there were bordellos next to the churches. The prudes and pecksniffs have already taken over the U.S. media.
 Cruising the Green of Second Avenue is available at Barnes & Noble and other online book sellers. More good stuff at http://allotropiclucubrations.blogspot.com
User avatar
tearsonroses
Wordtripper Extraordinaire
Posts: 407
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:58 am
Location: Looking for roses in Texas is a capital idea.
Contact:

Postby tearsonroses » Tue Jun 06, 2006 10:57 pm

As a general rule I do not like censorship, but young children do not need to be exposed to everything. For example pornography should not be shelved next to the children’s section, and my local grocery store has a black divider, that only shows the title, over magazines in the checkout line that have anything explicit on the front. Anything else is the parent’s responsibility. If parents are concerned that their child is exposed to racial slang, then the parents should explain to the child why they should not use those words and why the words were used in the book.

History is most accurately represented in writings of the time. If we get wrapped up in protecting children from the horrors of the past, then they will not know to prevent them in the future.

I do not worry too much about books becoming obsolete, or about the illiteracy rating. More people now have access to these things that every before. There are book stores on every corner and in some areas those are the “cool” places to hang out. While books are expensive and e-books are readily available, I think most people prefer to look at pages that a glaring screen.

Though television does seem to rule the seen; I do not think that it will forever. Revolution is emanate with the nation’s rise in medical problems related to obesity. The level of unintelligent existence will eventually hit bottom and be forced to come up for air.

Those are my garbled thoughts on the matter. I can not ever bring myself to have an openly optimistic outlook on things and try to stay a little shy of pessimism as well, so maybe I will hit somewhere near accurate.
Hope, Love, Dream
novicescribbler
Wordtripper
Posts: 51
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:31 pm

Postby novicescribbler » Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:11 am

Me again.
Good point about who gets to decide what is censored or not. I'm thinking that Wordtrippers should volunteer to form a committee and then tackle the job with a completely rational and writerly approach.
Rock, paper, scissors?
Is there anything that we all think should be banned on general principles?
Child porn? Snuff films?
Is there anything that has been banned in the past that we are outraged by?
Books written by Jews burned by Nazi's. I'm going to mention Catcher in the Rye because I'm guessing that, for most of us, that book was our first taste of the controversy.
User avatar
timberline
Wordtrip Junkie
Posts: 1468
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 9:54 am
Location: Back home in south Jersey
Contact:

Postby timberline » Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:28 am

Actually, 'scribbler, my first raw taste of life came from reading Tales from the Crypt. The Mothers' Mob finally outlawed it through the comics code in the '50s. Jeez, I'd be a jillionaire now if I'd saved those gory comics.

BTW, the U. of Connecticut library is still asking for my underground comix (Zap, Gory Tales, Mr. Natural) from the late '60s. If we get a good dose of Republican censorship the price of those comix is sure to go up.

Oh, hey, (ooops!) I just noticed the title of this thread. I'm really, really in favor of bannining. The trick is to get a very good bannin to make it work.
 Cruising the Green of Second Avenue is available at Barnes & Noble and other online book sellers. More good stuff at http://allotropiclucubrations.blogspot.com
User avatar
pengwenn
Wordtrip Fixture
Posts: 5534
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:01 pm
Location: a nice padded cubicle
Contact:

Postby pengwenn » Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:11 pm

Isn't it funny that you get more "truth" about a culture from thier fiction than any history book? A co-worker always tells me "history is the lie we all agree to." I don't know if he heard it somewhere or not. But if we start banning books because it used a derogitive word to describe a person or race (or other reason) then we are perpetuating a lie of history saying people never said those things.

If/when I ever have children I would want them to be well read and I would take the time to time to discuss books and their content. Some people say that kids won't be able to tell that in this story calling someone the "n-word" was perfectly acceptable. Hello! Kids know all about trends and whats in and out in today's world so why wouldn't they understand what trends and cultural things are "in" in the time of the story?
Is this my reality or yours?

Return to “The Writer's Life - Techniques, Characterization, Writing Ideas, & More”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests